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Thread: arc start problem.

  1. #1

    Default arc start problem.

    Whetn I start an arc I will get burn back of the wire to the tip or the wire will hit the workpiece two or three times with popping and you can see 1/2 inch long burnt wire along side the weld then the arc stabilizes and welds are as good as I can do. I had the arc force set half way and turned it down but have not noticed a difference, does that even matter in Mig? I am welding mild steel 1/4 inch Butt and lap steel is clean. settings are 21.4 voltage and 250 wire speed (300 inches min?)
    I know I am missing something just cant put my finger on it yet

  2. #2

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    Are you grounding directly to your work, or grounding to your work table and laying your metal on the table? Sounds like it could be a bad ground.
    Gerald

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  3. #3

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    That's not IPM.

    Its a linear measurement, but not in anything standard. At 300 it is cranking out over 600 IPM!

    Try this: 18.5 and somewhere between 140 and 160. Just a round setting....But your complaint is a complaint of too fast wire speed. The burning off is likely that you are popping it off by trying to feed too fast.

    Arc force does matter. It is "inductance". I keep mine set at about 3 o clock.

  4. #4

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    Burnback can be cured by increaseing your wire speed or lowering your voltage or adjusting your arc force and or increasing your stickout. Having a good ground helps and proper tacking before you weld is a must, cause if you touch off on a poorly grounded piece that is not fused or tacked but just lay against a grounded piece then things won't weld right until there is fusion to complete the circuit.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugar View Post
    Are you grounding directly to your work, or grounding to your work table and laying your metal on the table? Sounds like it could be a bad ground.
    Rugar
    I do have my ground on the work piece and on clean steel. I learned that lesson with my first welder.


    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    That's not IPM.

    Its a linear measurement, but not in anything standard. At 300 it is cranking out over 600 IPM!


    Try this: 18.5 and somewhere between 140 and 160. Just a round setting....But your complaint is a complaint of too fast wire speed. The burning off is likely that you are popping it off by trying to feed too fast.

    Arc force does matter. It is "inductance". I keep mine set at about 3 o clock.
    Performance;
    I am running .035 wire and have the digital readout set at 250 and measured the amount of wire from the gun holding the trigger for 6 seconds then multiplied by 10 and got 300 IPM with a setting of 250 on the machine.
    with a setting of 21.4 volts
    I will try your suggestions and see if I improve



    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    Burnback can be cured by increaseing your wire speed or lowering your voltage or adjusting your arc force and or increasing your stickout. Having a good ground helps and proper tacking before you weld is a must, cause if you touch off on a poorly grounded piece that is not fused or tacked but just lay against a grounded piece then things won't weld right until there is fusion to complete the circuit.
    Geezer;

    Once the weld begins I have a good arc and no burn back issues I do notice a change in the "frying bacon" sound at times but I found out what causes that. as I travel my gun angle falls off so I am working to improve my skill at maintaining the correct angle.
    Thanks guys I really appreciate the help and tips I get on here maybe some day when I figure this out I can pass the kindness and knowledge on.
    Ray

  6. #6

    Default

    There are a couple of "other" possible issues, both related.

    1) The wrong side of the drive roll is being used. It seems to me that the way my unit came is with the .040 side set to use. It looked like the .035 would work, but it just wouldn't. I flipped it over to the .030 side and haven't had any more issues. The drives are for .030/.035 and .040/.045. I also had to experiment with drive feed tension. I found out about 3/4 of the way down is best for my unit. You may find different requirements for different type spools and the resistance they provide to "turning". I keep mine more loose than tight. Make sure the wire is down in the groove. I have changed it out in the shop where light wasn't as good and found the wire wasn't in the groove, but it was still feeding...but not real good.This will have a lot to do with the way the unit welds.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    There are a couple of "other" possible issues, both related.

    1) The wrong side of the drive roll is being used. It seems to me that the way my unit came is with the .040 side set to use. It looked like the .035 would work, but it just wouldn't. I flipped it over to the .030 side and haven't had any more issues. The drives are for .030/.035 and .040/.045. I also had to experiment with drive feed tension. I found out about 3/4 of the way down is best for my unit. You may find different requirements for different type spools and the resistance they provide to "turning". I keep mine more loose than tight. Make sure the wire is down in the groove. I have changed it out in the shop where light wasn't as good and found the wire wasn't in the groove, but it was still feeding...but not real good.This will have a lot to do with the way the unit welds.
    I did lessen the tension on the drive roller but I remember when I changed to .035 wire I automatically changed the roller to the larger groove I will check and correct that The drag on my 2 lb spool is minimum and when the burn back welded the wire to the tip I did not get a birds nest. Im learning that this machine is somewhat different then the Hobart 135 I had first.
    Thanks

  8. #8

    Default

    Houston, We found the problem.lol

    The larger size will not feed the .035 very well.
    Change it back to the .030 side.

    I run mine pretty tight and even experimented with tighter, but its been a very long time since I had a birds nest on any wire welder, so maybe I lost my fear of it.

  9. #9

    Default

    If Marks tip doesn't work, (I think it will), then check your tip and make sure it's the right size for the wire you're using. I've done that before and had similar problems.
    Steve

    Miller 212
    Everlast 250EX
    Everlast PowerPlasma 60
    Victor O/A
    Current Project: 21' Jet Sled Rat Boat.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by sschefer View Post
    If Marks tip doesn't work, (I think it will), then check your tip and make sure it's the right size for the wire you're using. I've done that before and had similar problems.
    I checked and it is the correct size tip. and with these old eyes that could easily have been a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by performance View Post
    Houston, We found the problem.lol

    The larger size will not feed the .035 very well.
    Change it back to the .030 side.

    I run mine pretty tight and even experimented with tighter, but its been a very long time since I had a birds nest on any wire welder, so maybe I lost my fear of it.
    never feared a Birds nest I guess because it has yet to happen to me I changed the roller and hope to get to try it out today or tomorrow. Right now I am making some clamps to hold the slats to the frame of the table I am building.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Too far North! Midwest USA
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    59

    Default

    Is the metal your using hot rolled? I had a arc starting problem many years ago it was the scale on the hot rolled stock, grinding takes it off but only a course wheel, the scale will shine up with a fine wheel and grind only the edge. So unless your exactly on the edge the wire will feed and then burn when you finally touch the edge giving the stub at start up.
    Hope this helps
    dwdw

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwdw View Post
    Is the metal your using hot rolled? I had a arc starting problem many years ago it was the scale on the hot rolled stock, grinding takes it off but only a course wheel, the scale will shine up with a fine wheel and grind only the edge. So unless your exactly on the edge the wire will feed and then burn when you finally touch the edge giving the stub at start up.
    Hope this helps
    dwdw

    DW as with most hobby welders I have no idea of the origin of most of my steel. The material I was using was a frame for our HS weight platforms whih were being discarded after 12 years so I stripped a few and used it for my welding table frame. I made some of the adjustments suggested my others and it seems better I did get some good spatter but I was welding in a difficult corner and I'm pretty sure my gun angle was the cause.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Too far North! Midwest USA
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Ram48
    What is the HS weight platform? Is possible its galvanized? You shouldn't get much spatter unless your polarity is wrong. What thickness is the metal.
    Are you using 75/25 or Co2 for shielding?
    Hope to help and not hinder.
    dwdw


    Quote Originally Posted by Ram48 View Post
    DW as with most hobby welders I have no idea of the origin of most of my steel. The material I was using was a frame for our HS weight platforms whih were being discarded after 12 years so I stripped a few and used it for my welding table frame. I made some of the adjustments suggested my others and it seems better I did get some good spatter but I was welding in a difficult corner and I'm pretty sure my gun angle was the cause.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dwdw View Post
    Ram48
    What is the HS weight platform? Is possible its galvanized? You shouldn't get much spatter unless your polarity is wrong. What thickness is the metal.
    Are you using 75/25 or Co2 for shielding?
    Hope to help and not hinder.
    dwdw
    DW

    I know it is not Galv but is was Powder Coated and I ground that off all around the weld area It could be hot rolled but I do not know how to tell if it is.
    I am adding accessories to the table and still have a problem but it seems to be less Tomorrow I will be welding mild steel brackets to receiver tubing so If I have no issues I should know if it was a problem with the steel I used for the frame. We will see
    Merry Christmas.

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